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Bolero red 67

JohnC

Veteran Member
Senior Member
With some help from my visiting Dad and Mother Nature (warm weather) I’m finally getting to put down some color. No matter how many times I blocked (using guide coat and appropriate blocks) there are some things that showed up and needed to be corrected before I could go on. Frustrating.

Due to lack of space and wanting to get good coverage, car will be done in pieces. Paint is a solid red. Using a tinted epoxy as sealer to help ensure good coverage. BC is Valspar ($500 a gallon 😥). Clear coat will be Tamco Glamour clear IIRC.
I wanted to start with a small piece to make sure it lays down good.
Here is my first step. It’s only the sealer. Will spray BC and CC tomorrow.
 

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Today was a relative success. Sprayed color (first pic) and clear. Got more orange peel than I’d like in some areas (I’m looking for a level of orange peel that’s similar to modern factory paint jobs, not ultra flat). It’ll need some cutting and buffing.
Kevin or anyone got a hints at reducing orange peel? Shot the base at about 26 psi (pulled trigger). For the clear I turned it up to 29-30.
Does moving the gun too fast lead to peel? The first pass I think I moved the gun a bit too fast. For the second and third pass I slowed it down to pound on the material so it could flow out better. The results was a better, smoother level of peel. But I got some runs.
Outside temp was low 60s but my reducers were fast so I think I had the right materials for the temp.
How do you deal with sanding out runs. I’ve got some runs that are very discrete runs that stand out high. Also some that are less raised and wider. Maybe more like a sag.
 

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A lot to go through, too much pressure, too little pressure, speed, distance, thinning, all come into play. Which gun, and do you have a gauge at the gun?
 
It’s an Astro HVLP gun. Forgot the model, but it’s 15+ years old. 1.3 tip. No thinner in the clear. Pressure is measured at the gun trigger pulled.
 
It's a different animal than my gun, but I'll wing it a bit. Start with 20 psi at the gun for base, fast pace, 50% overlap, thinned per tds, medium reducer, and 65 degrees minimum. Clear, a bit more pressue, maybe 22-24, medium first coat, full fluid (open all the way, throttle down till you feel the trigger push back) then 2 full coats. Medium coat is just a bit faster than you normally move, same distance, usually 10 inches from panel. Do all this on a test panel, then adjust your technique based on peel, a little slower movement gives you less peel, more build, more chance at sags, runs. I like to feel the clear with my finger between coats, on the paper of course.....should be tacky, never wet. There's so much more, but from here, that's a good start. Your panel looks like you got a lot of clear on, maybe a bit close, a bit slow moving, and possibly full first coat?
 
I agree with Jerry. Sounds like the gun wasn't atomizing well (pressure too low), and you may have been moving too fast (bigger droplets hitting the panel).

Best way to combat that is like Jerry said, use a test panel to get a feel for it. This way you can adjust the gun, pressure, and your technique for the conditions.

I never paint below 70° and will always introduce heat to stabilize the environment first (when it's below 70° and keep the heat on for a few hours so everything is warm). The slower the reducer the better (as temperature dictates).

Some of the issues you're having may be due to the gun. A better gun can atomize the paint at lower pressure, but technique also has a lot to do with it as well.

As far as the runs go, usually with bigger runs I'll use a fresh razor blade to cut the high spots (after it's dried a bit), then sand with 1000 (only if it's a big run), then, wet 1500, then a dripping wet 3000.

I've also used masking tape in a loop rolled on my 4 fingers loosely and rolled it down the drip (lightly) to pull some of the excess paint / clear off while it was still wet.
 
Runs are much easier to remove with a solid color. With a metallic, the clear tends to drag the base with it, leaving distorted metallics which you can't fix, just need to spot in the base and reclear. If you need to do that, you'll need to spot clear to seal, then rebase, then reclear.
Now, a trick I learned awhile back on heavy runs is to spread filler over the run, then sand flat with a HARD block, all the way to at least 2000 wet, then buff. A sag is way tougher, and for me, it's just easier to scrub it off and repaint....for a panel, a body shell not so much.
 
Runs are much easier to remove with a solid color. With a metallic, the clear tends to drag the base with it, leaving distorted metallics which you can't fix, just need to spot in the base and reclear. If you need to do that, you'll need to spot clear to seal, then rebase, then reclear.
Now, a trick I learned awhile back on heavy runs is to spread filler over the run, then sand flat with a HARD block, all the way to at least 2000 wet, then buff. A sag is way tougher, and for me, it's just easier to scrub it off and repaint....for a panel, a body shell not so much.

Why would you spread filler over the run and add more work? Even if you use a hard sanding block you're going to destroy the clear resulting in possibly having to reshoot the base again and definitely having to clear anyways.

Not knocking your idea, I'm trying understand why.
 
The filler is just to keep your block flat and controlled....sand until the filler on all sides of the run is gone, then you're guarnateed of not "rocking" your block and sanding into your base. The filler won't damage your clear.
 
Thanks for the replies. My ginormous runs are in the most medial part of the fender- the vertical surface that is hidden beneath the edge of the hood when the hood is down.
I saw a video on YouTube where you use a sharp razor blade held 90 degrees to the panel and basically scrape at the run until it’s level.
I’ve got a nib file too so I’ll see what works better.
The bigger challenge will be the top surface of the fender (that faces the sky). Got some sags up there. The panels were painted tilted so that I could get up under the lowest edge of the panel which was a mistake.
The sag I might try to scrape down with a blade or sand using a hardwood or plastic block.

We’ll see. I’m going to try to learn from this and fix my problems and not have to repaint. I’ll probably let the paint sit for a few weeks to fully harden the clear.

As far as painting a test panel can I use a piece of cardboard for that? Maybe a coat of sealer and base coat so the clear has a similar substrate to layout on?
 
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Thanks for the replies. My ginormous runs are in the most medial part of the fender- the cortical surface that is hidden beneath the edge of the hood when the hood is down.
I saw a video on YouTube where you use a sharp razor blade held 90 degrees panel and basically scrape at the run until it’s level.
I’ve got a nib file too so I’ll see what works better.
The bigger challenge will be the top surface of the fender (that faces the sky). Got some sags up there. The panels were painted tilted so that I could get up under the lowest edge of the panel which was a mistake.
The sag I might try to scrape down with a blade or sand using a hardwood or plastic block.

We’ll see. I’m going to try to learn from this and fix my problems and not have to repaint. I’ll probably let the paint sit for a few weeks to fully harden the clear.

As far as painting a test panel can I use a piece of cardboard for that? Maybe a coat of sealer and base coat so the clear has a similar substrate to layout on?

You'll need something that is completely non porous to practice on. Cardboard can give you a basic feel, but it won't be the same as metal.

As far as the sag goes take your time and as long as it's not in the basecoat (sags only in the clear) you should be able to clean that up pretty easy with a razor blade (make sure it new and clean and be light on the pressure), but patience is key, take your time and you should be able to recover it nicely.
 
I kinda wondered if I put a coat of sealer epoxy on the cardboard and then a coat of color it might simulate a panel adequately to see how the clear would lay out at different pressures.

The idea obviously is to do the testing but not have to sand out the mistakes. But I think I’ve got some scrap metal panels I can use.

Thanks for the replies guys. I’ll update when I get more done later this week.
 
As funny as it sounds John, I used to keep a front fender of an old VW bug to test on. It always gave me a feel for how the paint would lay out especially since it was all curved.

With the serious shortage of space I have (and I had decided I was done doing body work and painting), I got rid of it when I was building my current house (well before I moved in).

I got really bored after the kids moved out and got back into it again.
 
I've always wanted to paint a car....I was a pretty damn good model car builder and painter though! Still am.....it takes a lot of finesse to make a spray can lay down "just right"! The last car I restored back in 2004 went to the body shop circa mid-2002 and stayed there being worked on little by little. The final work they did was paint the car for me. They had a new paint booth so it got royal treatment, sanding between coats....I have absolutely no orange peel anywhere on that car! Only problem they had was the temperature while baking the clearcoat and they ended up with a few runs. They corrected as much as they could but in the end it is a really sweet "Chamonix" white BMW color in 1972 (cream/vanilla color). After all their problems I decided painting wasn't for me...ha!
 

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Got much more of the car in paint. I’m not happy with the level of orange peel but I kinda expected that. I am happy with the color and from what I can see, the body work. Not perfect for looks pretty good from what I see.

Few more questions:
Can anyone recommend a good place (not $$$) to get buffing supplies? I’ve got an old rotary buffer so I guess I’d need wool pad and foam pads and compounds.

There is an area where two bugs landed in the base coat and I couldn’t get them out without interrupting the paint so I dabbed a little color on with a brush and thought I could clear over it but it still shows. The area is the top section of the quarter panel next to the trunk lid. Can I just fix this section and not redo the whole panel? My thought is tape along the top body line, edge of the trunk lid, the rear deck filler panel seam and the convertible top. Sand that area, recoat with base and clear? Can anyone better explain how to fix this paint defect?

Thanks
 
Needs some work
 

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Got much more of the car in paint. I’m not happy with the level of orange peel but I kinda expected that. I am happy with the color and from what I can see, the body work. Not perfect for looks pretty good from what I see.

Few more questions:
Can anyone recommend a good place (not $$$) to get buffing supplies? I’ve got an old rotary buffer so I guess I’d need wool pad and foam pads and compounds.

There is an area where two bugs landed in the base coat and I couldn’t get them out without interrupting the paint so I dabbed a little color on with a brush and thought I could clear over it but it still shows. The area is the top section of the quarter panel next to the trunk lid. Can I just fix this section and not redo the whole panel? My thought is tape along the top body line, edge of the trunk lid, the rear deck filler panel seam and the convertible top. Sand that area, recoat with base and clear? Can anyone better explain how to fix this paint defect?

Thanks

For buffing supplies, I usually get them locally where I buy my paint.

Sorry to say John, but the prudent thing to do would have been to stop at the BC when you saw bugs in it. It could have easily been fixed at that stage with sanding the bugs out, and reshooting the BC in that affected area blending it into the rest of the panel. So moving forward, the way to fix it properly is to sand down to get the bugs out, but using a bodyline as a fine edge to recoat the BC and then CC will only introduce issues that will always be seen. Without seeing pictures of how much the BC is distorted from the bugs I'll give a brief synopsis on how I'd repair it. In my opinion, it'd be best to sand the bugs out, feather the area at least 2 to 3 times the size (diameter wise), then sand the CC on the rest of the panel until the orange peel is smooth on that panel, reshoot the same amount of coats you have for base in the bug area (on the first coat of BC) blending the BC away from the affected area (so it's about the same thickness), let it flash off and then shoot the CC on the entire panel.

It's good practice to stop at the BC if there are issues as repairing at the BC stage is much easier without introducing CC and wasting supplies and time. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
 
Kevin's right, I would never blend clear on anything but a pos, and your car doesn't qualify. Now is the easiest time to set it right and other than the major inconvenience, it's a good excuse to shoot a flow coat after the spot repair and overall sanding. You will have to seal the spot repair first. If you shoot base over a sand through, it'll most likely react with the feather edge of clear, the hallo. That area will lift. You'll need to sand the bug out, spot seal, re base that area, then I'd shoot a coat of clear over that area, then a full coat on the panel.
 
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